[nflug] Virtualization

Cyber Source peter at thecybersource.com
Mon Dec 15 15:40:11 EST 2008


glad to have helped, delve in, you'll be glad you did.

Brad Bartram wrote:
> Thanks Pete - good insights.  It's what I'm looking for.
>
> On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 3:10 PM, Cyber Source 
> <peter at thecybersource.com <mailto:peter at thecybersource.com>> wrote:
>
>     virtualization just plain rocks, end of.
>
>     Why? Lets see.
>
>     1. Hardware transparency! No need for whether you have kernel
>     modules loaded, latest drivers, etc.. Can take a windows vm from
>     box to box and the hardware does not change cause its virtual.
>     2. Nice way to keep old stuff running. I have my old phpaga (great
>     app) which does all my invoicing, is php4 based with mysql, pear
>     and a bunch of other things. This thing was a COMPLETE pain in the
>     ass to install and after becoming somewhat proficient in vm's, I
>     suggested to the developer, why not make a vm out of an install,
>     this way all you need to do is setup a new database. I took my old
>     FC4 box and made a vm out of it, just for my invoicing app. Which
>     I run on what I call my application server, which fires up and
>     shuts down the vm via crons and does backups as well.
>     3. snapshots. wanna make a change and not sure of the
>     ramifications? take a quick one second snapshot (with  extremely
>     small footprint) that if the change was not good, can revert the
>     snapshot in seconds right back to where you originally were.
>     4. backups. tar em up.
>     5. read-only (see below)
>
>     on and on, the experienced can see the possibilities unfolding. I
>     just bid on a job where it will be to take 11 old ass hodge podge
>     (like 6 different distros and windows) and create 1 thin client
>     server and 1 virtual machine server (running the free vmware
>     server). This wall in one whack, all workstations still running
>     ancient hardware will be upgraded and running the latest and
>     greatest ubuntu and then from within the thin client, the will
>     access their windows xp vm's via terminal service under their
>     ubuntu desktops. no ups's needed, they can only log off windows
>     (which are read-only too, data gets written to network shares
>     (samba) that get scanned nightly from clam under the Linux samba
>     shares. windows is read-only itself, no need for anti-virus).
>
>     Sorry for the babble, just busy but wanted to chime in.
>
>
>     Brad Bartram wrote:
>
>         I'm not too worried about the equipment working.  It's only
>         used at certain points in the workflow and that would be
>         eliminated by centralizing.
>
>         I deal with a lot of front end data processing - (between .25
>         - 2TB at a go) - which is analyzed by the users individually.
>          Storing that amount of data is a beast and is especially so
>         when Oracle is involved.  So, by processing the data on a big
>         server-class machine with lots and lots of RAM and fast disk
>         access to both the storage side and the database would be a
>         great step in increasing productivity and efficiency.
>          Virtualizing the workstation environment makes sense to me
>         since the front end is pretty light once the processing is done.
>
>         On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 2:32 PM, Justin Elze
>         <formulals1 at gmail.com <mailto:formulals1 at gmail.com>
>         <mailto:formulals1 at gmail.com <mailto:formulals1 at gmail.com>>>
>         wrote:
>
>            Connecting from thin clients to the VMs via terminal
>         services or
>            citrix assume?
>            My only fear would be whatever specialized equipment your
>         running
>            working over terminal services....I work with a customer
>         who runs
>            a custom app written foxpro for dos....regardless we created a
>            number of VMs from a base image and all of their employees use
>            older machines and terminal services to connect works very
>         well.
>
>            Obviously this isn't a good metric but I have a few dual
>         quad core
>            machines with 26gb of ram running 20+ virtual
>            machines....obviously a lot of these VMs are low load but
>            performance is great....also saves room/power consumption
>         in the
>            datacenter.
>
>            Having the ability to clone VMs and quickly bring up new
>         machines
>            is great for testing/dev enviroments is a huge benifit of
>            virtualiaztion.
>
>            On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 2:23 PM, Brad Bartram
>            <brad.bartram at gmail.com <mailto:brad.bartram at gmail.com>
>         <mailto:brad.bartram at gmail.com
>         <mailto:brad.bartram at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>
>                I actually have a couple of different applications I'm
>         toying
>                with right now.
>
>                For the first one, I'm looking at running a windows based
>                application for multiple users.  I can't get into too much
>                detail for various reasons but it's a traditional client  /
>                server app with an oracle backend.  Under the current
>                configuration, I have quite a few front end machines at the
>                user's desks with each machine being about $10,000.  The
>                problem is that the machines aren't that powerful -
>         they just
>                have some specialized equipment connected to them.
>
>                Ideally, I want to take those machines off the user's
>         desks -
>                consolidate the hardware in the data center and
>         virtualize the
>                user's environment allowing them to connect via a thin
>                client.  This is very, very simplified - but it's the
>         gist of
>                what I'm thinking.
>
>                The second application would be the distribution of
>         resources
>                in a web services environment.  This would be a linux
>                environment and would be a LAMP (or in my case LAPP - the
>                first P being postgres) setup.  Just trying to get the most
>                bang for my buck I guess.
>
>                Brad
>
>
>                On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 2:10 PM, Justin Elze
>                <formulals1 at gmail.com <mailto:formulals1 at gmail.com>
>         <mailto:formulals1 at gmail.com <mailto:formulals1 at gmail.com>>>
>         wrote:
>
>                    Are you leaning towards VMWare or Xenserver?
>
>                    Currently I run a number of Xenserver deployments
>         running
>                    on HP C class blades and using HP MSA1500 SANs for
>         shared
>                    storage this allows for xenmotion(moving VMs between
>                    physical servers with no downtime).  Overall I have
>         been
>                    very happy with Xenserver I have been using it since
>                    release 4.0 and it has come a huge way in the past
>         year to
>                    the current version 5.0.
>                    Xenserver makes it very easy to vlan tag interfaces
>         on VMs
>                    giving you the ability to host multiple customers
>         on the
>                    same hardware and keep them unaware of each other.
>
>                    One of Xenservers short comes when you virtualize
>         all the
>                    servers at a SMB is tradionally backups were done
>         with a
>                    directly attached tape back up and there is no
>         provision
>                    in xenserver for it.
>
>                    What kind of enviroment are you looking to
>         virtualize? I
>                    could probably give more appropriate advice/suggestions
>                    knowing that.
>
>                    Justin Elze
>
>
>
>                    On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 1:41 PM, Brad Bartram
>                    <brad.bartram at gmail.com
>         <mailto:brad.bartram at gmail.com> <mailto:brad.bartram at gmail.com
>         <mailto:brad.bartram at gmail.com>>>
>
>                    wrote:
>
>                        I'm interested in this whole virtualization of
>         servers
>                        and services trend that's been on going for quite a
>                        while.  I've worked with it on workstations and
>         in the
>                        traditional host - guest configurations to gain
>         access
>                        to non-native applications - you know, user-level
>                        stuff.  I'm interested in it on the server side of
>                        things though.  I've read the marketing
>         propaganda and
>                        seen the vendor white papers and all the trade
>                        news-vertisements, but I'm interested in
>         hearing some
>                        real world opinions.
>
>                        I know some of you have opinions on it.  So
>         what's the
>                        good, the bad, the shortcomings, and the
>         strengths?                Are there any things I should look
>         out for or things I
>                        should consider in planning out hardware
>         purchases and
>                        such?
>
>                        Thanks
>
>                        Brad
>
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