[nflug] community GNU/Linux education - thank you

[peter at thecybersource.com]

Mike Canzoneri wrote:
> Peter,
> I thought that since you are not buying Ken's reasoning I would add my
> two cent and try to sell you mine.
>
>> I don't buy that reasoning at all. When M$ wants to put some
>> competition out of business, they are more than willing to jump into
>> bed with others to do so. I'm sure if they really wanted to, they
>> could strike a deal with a hardware company to provide all the
>> necessary stuff to schools and the needy. With all the glut of
>> hardware around and I'm sure I only see a fraction of it, this is not
>> a terribly huge request.
>
> I would argue that suppling every needy school and person with a
> computer and necessary OS is an enormous request.  But lets say for a
> minute that we do go and give all this stuff away to a bunch of
> schools.  Then we will proceed to get crushed from needing to provide
> support for all that free equipment and software.  Lets not forget
> that you would be effectively dumping all of this technology into a
> place where there is most likely no support structure at all.  Who is
> going to maintain all of these machines that are being used by the
> students?  Then again, even if we had that, can we say that a school
> that needs this sort of help has the space to put computers or maybe
> even the money to pay for the power consumption?  This reasoning
> stands regardless of the OS or hardware manufacturer.
>> At M$ defense (and I don't come here often), they have made many
>> donations but from what I have seen they are almost always self
>> serving in some way.
>
> ...and why on earth wouldn't they be if they are providing their
> software and support services for free?
>
>> As a business man, I don't think there is anything wrong with that
>> but I also don't think they go nearly far enough. Linux vendors like
>> Ubuntu, Fedora Project, Mandriva are all showing just how much can be
>> done and when you put their efforts in comparison to M$ efforts,
>> knowing the $ that M$ has to work with, it makes it very pale in
>> comparison.
>
> I think the part you are missing here is that entities such as Ubuntu,
> Fedora Project, and Mandriva have different and business goals and
> organizational visions than those such as Microsoft.  As a publicly
> traded company the goal of an entity such as Microsoft is to make
> money.  Thats it. For Microsoft the act of course is not merely one of
> charity.  If they provide a school with computers and software they
> help guarantee another generation people who will use their software.
> This contrasts strongly against the vision and best interests of the
> groups that support Ubuntu, Fedora Project, and Mandriva.  They give a
> lot back to the community because that is the principle on which they
> are based not because of eventual monetary gain.
>
>> Linux vendors are showing just how modern companies can evolve in
>> todays market with very innovative ideas. Whenever I see M$ doing
>> something that is suppose to be for the benefit of others, it just
>> seems like a glutton throwing a dog a crumb and keeping an ever
>> watchful eye on the pantry door.
>
> You are absolutely right that Linux is doing a great job of helping
> companies evolve however that does not give them the resources
> necessary to provide something along the lines of a complete
> technology infrastructure to schools that are in need of it.  This was
> of course what I felt was the pillar of Ken's point which, as we spoke
> about before, you do not buy.  So now I need to ask a question.  How
> does any entity such as the ones mentioned go about providing a
> complete technology solution to a school in need and have it provide
> any sort of return other than some small publicity?
>
> Oh and before I forget.  I'm trying to be informative too.  There.
> Now no one needs to ask.
>
> Mike Canzoneri
>
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Wow, it's amazing how something so simple get go so far out of course.
Let me just comment on a few things, informatively of course.
1. Who said that you would need to provide full support just because you
give to charity/schools or whatever? Where was this implied and who
would think that it should be? Who said anything about support or
maintenance of these machines?? I suppose you think someone should be
available if they get a print job stuck too.
2. How is Microsoft different than RedHat (Fedora Project). They are
both publicly traded companies with an obligation to their stock
holders. RedHat created a very innovative idea with Fedora, a public
beta forum to test new software in the waters of users. Fedora is free,
if you think your up to the task of using it, go ahead. If you want
support and a supported platform, you can purchase RHEL. I was pointing
out these differences. RedHat stock holders are certainly not under the
impression that their investments are based on an eventual monetary
gain, they expect it, just as any other publicly traded company. RedHat
has decided to charge for support as the focus. I like to think of it as
charging for what you can do with the hammer, not keep selling hammers.
(corny but it's the closest likeness I can think of). Education doesn't
come free and they charge for the knowledge but your also free to learn
if you have the time and ability.
3. Again, who said they must provide a complete solution? All or
nothing?? Kids pick up computers like a sponge, just having them around
is better than nothing.
4. A gift is a gift. If you want to give away something, then give it
away. If you feel that you can only give away a product combined with
some rule that they can only be used in some way (like have M$
software), what are you afraid of? On that note, they could give the
stuff away and then charge for the support if needed, that would still
be a deal.

Ok, now I think I have 3 cents in on this one but I do have one
question. What is the word that describes when a captive feels sympathy
for their captor? ;)



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