RH End of Life

Mark Musone mmusone at shatterit.com
Thu Jan 15 09:52:29 EST 2004


some problems with apache2 (not in any particular order, and completely
off the top of my head)
 
1.	Completely different vhost parsing, which recks havoc on trying
to migrate an apache 1.3 server configuration.
 
2.	The multi threading features (which is a very good concept in
general) is so untested and unproven that it’s off by default, which
really brings the best part of apache 2 back down to pre-apache 1.3
levels, since you are running it still in a pre-forked model
 
3.	Most importantly for me, PHP is not tested at all on apache2.
hardly any of the modules have even been converted to work with apache2,
and because of that php has a big tendency to crash apache because of
the core apache changes.
 
4.	Because they made major core changes to be able to support
threading, all that backend is very new and untested.
 
 
also, from Rasmus (the author of PHP):
 
Generally Apache2+PHP is a bad idea on UNIX, and I suspect this will
never change.  The two main advantages to Apache2 are threads and the
filter 
mechanism allowing you to insert your module into the filter stack and 
operate on the buckets as they flow past.
 
On threading, I have a strong belief that humans are simply not smart 
enough to write threadsafe code.  If you keep the scope small and build
a  very targeted system keeping the number of 3rd-party libraries
involved
to a minimum, you might be able to do it.  But for something like PHP
(or 
mod_perl) which is capable of touching just about every 3rd-party
library along with every native library out there, there is just no way
to
ensure everything is threadsafe.  And debugging this stuff is an
absolute 
nightmare.  
 
You can of course run Apache2 in non-threaded mode, aka the prefork MPM,
which leaves you with the cool filter mechanism.  Except of course, 
something like PHP (or mod_perl) needs the entire script in order to 
perform the two-stage parse+execute so we basically have to put a up a
big stop sign in this whole bucket brigade thing and wait to get all the

buckets.  Oh, and that filter API is overly complex and in my opinion 
quite broken, so we can't actually use it effectively which means we are
relegated to run as a handler instead of a filter.
 
That means that for any sort of PHP/mod_perl dynamic content, you really
don't gain anything by going with Apache2 except a less mature and less 
tested codebase.  And if you are silly enough to run a threaded MPM,
then you are in a world of pain with Apache2.  You may benefit slightly
from 
downstream filters such as mod_deflate which can operate on the output
of the handler and of course Apache2 has ipv6 support.  ipv6 really
should
be added to the Apache1 codebase along with native compression support
so
we can do chunked compressed responses.
 
At one point the promise of the perchild mpm lured some people to
Apache2, but that mpm is very broken, and is by definiton threaded which
I just 
don't see working, ever.
 
I suggest sticking with the tried and true Apache1 if you are going to
do any sort of complex dynamic content.
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-nflug at nflug.org [mailto:owner-nflug at nflug.org] On Behalf Of
Cyber Source
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 9:04 AM
To: nflug at nflug.org
Subject: Re: RH End of Life
 
Mark, 
  What sort of issues have you seen? We run it here and have not seen
any problems, that we might be aware of that is.

Mark Musone wrote:


..which is good (apache 1.3). apache 2 is far from stable, and far from
having good performance for a production environment..
 
 
-Mark
 
-----Original Message-----
From: HYPERLINK "mailto:owner-nflug at nflug.org"owner-nflug at nflug.org
[HYPERLINK "mailto:owner-nflug at nflug.org"mailto:owner-nflug at nflug.org]
On Behalf Of
Justin Bennett
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 8:38 AM
To: HYPERLINK "mailto:nflug at nflug.org"nflug at nflug.org
Subject: Re: RH End of Life
 
Yeah RH 2.1ES and 3ES are based on the proven 7.x technology. It's more 
of a proven reliability issue for enterprise than for "Bleeding Edge". 
We run 2.1ES here. But since it is actually taking a step "backwards" 
then you need to reinstall. For example it uses Apache 1.3.x rather than
 
the Apache 2.
 
Justin
 
Justin Bennett
Network Administrator
RHCE (Redhat Certified Linux Engineer)
Dynabrade, Inc.
8989 Sheridan Dr.
Clarence, NY 14031
 
 
 
 
Riga, Anthony wrote:
 
  
According to the white papers Redhat 9.0 to Enterprise you need to do a
    
fresh install. I thought it was some sort of upgrade.
  
-----Original Message-----
From: HYPERLINK "mailto:owner-nflug at nflug.org"owner-nflug at nflug.org
[HYPERLINK "mailto:owner-nflug at nflug.org"mailto:owner-nflug at nflug.org]On
Behalf Of
HYPERLINK "mailto:robert_todd at adelphia.net"robert_todd at adelphia.net
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 10:23 PM
To: HYPERLINK "mailto:nflug at nflug.org"nflug at nflug.org
Subject: RH End of Life
 
 
Thought I would share this email with everyone:
 
---
 
Dear Red Hat Linux 7.1, 7.2, 7.3 and 8.0 customers,
 
    
 
  
In accordance with our errata support policy, the Red Hat Linux 7.1,
7.2, 7.3 and 8.0 distributions have now reached their errata
    
maintenance
  
end-of-life.
 
    
 
  
This means that we will no longer be producing security, bugfix, or
enhancement updates for these products.  Red Hat Linux 9 reaches end
of life on April 30, 2004.
 
    
 
  
As our product family grows and expands, we want to help you
migrate to the Red Hat solution that is right for you.  Whether that's
one of our Red Hat Enterprise Linux products or the Fedora Project, our
Red Hat Linux Migration Resource Center can help you find the Red Hat
solution best suited for your needs:
 
    
 
  
HYPERLINK
"http://www.redhat.com/solutions/migration/rhl/"http://www.redhat.com/so
lutions/migration/rhl/
 
    
 
  
The errata support policy, as well as our current errata and
    
advisories,
  
are available from:
 
    
 
  
HYPERLINK
"http://www.redhat.com/apps/support/errata/"http://www.redhat.com/apps/s
upport/errata/
 
--the Red Hat Network Team
 
 
 
 
 
    
 
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