new nflug server
Devon Null
devnull at butcherfamily.com
Wed Dec 31 19:00:00 EST 1969
At 10:47 01/08/2001 -0800, Dennis Eberl wrote:
>Devon Null wrote:
>> At 09:57 01/08/2001 -0500, Darin Perusich wrote:
>> >hello all,
>> >very paranoid when it comes to security and you need to be. when it
>> >comes to security my OS of choice is openBSD. i've been running openBSD
>> >on the internet for quite sometime and it's let me down. i know we are a
>> >linux users group and running anything other than linux sounds wrong,
>> >but openbsd is any open source system. i'm looking for feed back on this
>> >issue.
>> >
>> Darin Perusich,
>>
>> No, I can't see why a LUG server should be running a non-Linux OS because
>> that other OS is perceived by some to be more secure. Shouldn't another
>> alternative be to run Linux and make it as secure, or more secure than that
>> other OS?
>
>Sounds good. Do you have time to do that?
<
-----
Dennis Eberl,
As a matter of fact, I sure do have the time to do that.
I do *NOT* have the skills -=- YET. I've never installed UNIX/Linux in my
life. I'm a [newbie] -=- a UNIX/Linux neophyte. I am enthusiastic about
Linux and the Open Source model -=- which is one of the reasons I joined
NFLUG.
>
>> Isn't that part of why NFLUG is even in existence? -=- to work with Linux
>> in the real world so that we can be adept enough to have a highly
>> functional and secure Linux box!
>
>You know, a coherent presentation of these issues -- with an emphasis on SEC
>URITY issues -- would make a wonderful presentation at a meeting.
>
I think that's an excellent idea. [SECURITY] should be the number one issue
for any device that is connected to a network -=- especially the Internet
and World Wide Web! I would be pleased to help anyone who has the skills
and knowledge to head up an overview presentation on [SECURITY].
Are there any UNIX wizards in [NFLUG]?
We don't have to re-invent the wheel, as we probably could get a good start
just by making available the more important docs that are so "all-over" the
Net. The selection of the most relevant docs should be made by someone who
is adept at UNIX. I don't know which of the docs I have read are the more
accurate or comprehensive -=- but read I do.
>> >
>> If you are looking for a straw vote on the issue, please mark me as being
>> opposed to installing any non-Linux OS on the NFLUG server.
>
>Voting is an interesting concept. It is also interesting that you voice
>opposition to one solution without proposing a practical alternative.
>
>> >
What a curious thing to say.
Are you implying that in order to voice a valid objection to a proposal, it
is necessary that one must also offer alternatives?
That's a silly notion.
Perhaps you are being a bit overly defensive here. Are you that
self-absorbed to find my post [interesting] because you didn't think that I
answered some issues the way you would have replied?
The original post asked for opinions on what OS to install on the [NFLUG]
sever, and I didn't want to pontificate on philosophical beliefs, nor sing
the praises of an operating system that I have no clue about, nor attempt
to solve any discretionary free time issues Darin may have.
*BUT* maybe I CAN help out THERE!
I would love to do an unpaid internship at Darin's place of employment.
It's a road I have been down before at other places of business -=- in
conjunction with a Buffalo State College professor. I have fun while
learning real-life applications of the book, and the business gets
almostFree labour by only having to provide for lunch.
I *DID* offer an alternative, BTW.
Check out the paragraph that immediately follows the salutation:
========================================
>> Darin Perusich,
>>
>> No, I can't see why a LUG server should be running a non-Linux OS because
>> that other OS is perceived by some to be more secure. Shouldn't another
>> alternative be to run Linux and make it as secure, or more secure than that
>> other OS?
========================================
Here is the original request:
===================
>> >but openbsd is any open source system. i'm looking for feed back on this
>> >issue.
>> >
>> Darin Perusich,
===================
As you can see here Dennis, Darin was asking for feedback from us. I gave
*MY* feedback.
I'm perplexed as to how you can even think that *MY* feedback should
somehow meet *YOUR* criteria to be considered feedback. Even if my original
reply offered no alternative, so what? THAT is *MY* reply.
I always look for feedback on any opinions I express, so feel free to
critique them. I don't think it's at all necessary to have to offer
alternatives when expressing an opinion or even dissenting on an issue -=-
maybe advantageous sometimes, but certainly not required.
>Sounds good. Do you have time to do that?
<
What are
>the pros and cons of deploying Linux "out on" the web? How should Darin
>"share" his spare time tending the NFLUG server? Gee whiz.
>
*sheesh*
I don't know about the negative and positive aspects of deploying Linux
["out on" the web] -=- that is ANOTHER reason I am pumped up about my
[NFLUG] membership -=- I wanna LEARN that!
I already addressed Darin's discretionary free time issues a few paragraphs
^ up there. He does pose an interesting question in his original post:
>Dennis
>
OK, now that I have my asbestos suit off, I'd like to address some of the
issues oriented around the OS selection for the [NFLUG] server.
First and foremost, if the person responsible for the box is more
comfortable with a particular OS and wants to install that OS, then if at
all possible, *THAT* should be the first consideration given.
The point I was trying to make, (and obviously failed miserably) was that I
felt the server should be a flavour of Linux -=- we're a Linux users'
group! If there are problems and/or issues using Linux over another OS,
then what better place to demonstrate it -=- we could see first-hand any
issues and explore possible workarounds.
There is even software and firmware out there that will allow you to run a
half a dozen operating systems simultaneously on the same box. Should THAT
be given consideration?
What is the purpose of the [NFLUG] box?
If its sole purpose or use is one of utility -=- to host the [NFLUG] site
without any newbie hands-on, then I think the OS should be left up to the
admin of the box. If the box will also be used for teaching and newbie
hands-on experiences, then I think a dual-boot box might be more appropriate.
If I marry the above two paragraphs together, then I would recommend the
box have whatever OS the admin wanted, with the option of either a
dual-boot or extra drives loaded up with other flavours of UNIX.
I really don't like that idea of fucking around with a box that is in
production. IDEALLY, I would like to see at least ANOTHER box simulating a
production for us to pound on -=- we could even get into dealing first-hand
with some vulnerabilities, exploits and other cracks, and how to best
detect and defend against.
No, my resources are limited, so I can't offer any hardware of software. We
don't need the spiffiest, latest and most powerful box if we're only
simulating production. Does anyone have a box or two around with older
technology that we could use as [betaBox]es.
We could attack and crack these [betaBox]es and learn REactive post-mortem
computer forensics as well as the opportunity to learn PROactive defense
and security measures!
Ideally, we would also be able to run many "in production" servers with
different architectures. Does anyone have an old VAX or Alpha around? We
could compare functionality and security issues between Linux and Open AXP
VMS with a dual-boot DEC (Compaq) box. -=- or an Amiga? -=- or a
Crashintosh? -=- or a Sun with Solaris? -=- SGI anyone? -=- Maybe we can
even do routers, hubs and switches! ;-)
So, in addition to the alternatives offered in my original post, I think we
ought to consider the [NFLUG] box as [in production] and leave the OS and
dual-boot options up to admin.
Ideally, I'd scarf around for older technology so that we can set up
different [betaBox]es to beat on.
I hope I have better clarified my previously posted points of view with
this post.
*whew* that sentence reads like, "Peter Piper picked a peck...)
Be well Dennis. -=- see you at the meeting!
Best regards.
Devon Null
devnull at butcherfamily.com
_______________________________________________
"Skulking through life at the speed of dark."
- Devon Null {1949 - 20--)
_______________________________________________
devnull at buffalo.com | NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSIT
>> Best regards.
>>
>> Devon Null
>> devnull at butcherfamily.com
>> ______________________________________________________
>> If you don't share your concepts and ideals,
>> they end up being worthless;
>> -- Sharing is what makes them powerful.
>> -- Linus Torvalds
>> ______________________________________________________
>> devnull at buffalo.com | NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSIT
>>
>> >this can be a good project for the up coming meeting, if not building
>> >the machine at least it's discussion.
>> >
>> >--
>> >Darin Perusich
>> >Unix Administrator
>> >Cognigen Corp.
>> >darinper at cognigencorp.com
>> >
>
>
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